Date: July 28, 1997 12:42 AM
Author: Todd Elgie (toddlg@bstream.com)
Subject: How to purify water?

I've read where someone said cholrine bleach could be used to purify water. What is the method? Also, are there any other relatively simple ways to purify water, both large and small scale?

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Date: July 29, 1997 03:13 PM
Author: Al Durtschi (mark@waltonfeed.com)
Subject: Water purification methods


There are several ways of disinfecting biologically contaminated water.

First, don't forget that you can boil it. You should have it at a rolling boil it for at least 5 minutes to make sure the bacteria are completely killed.

You can also add bleach. Be sure it is pure chlorine bleach without any other additives. For a quart you will want to add 2 drops for clear water and four drops for cloudy water. This translates into 8 drops for a gallon of clear water or 16 drops for a gallon of water cloudy water. You should let the water sit for 15-20 minutes before using it. The old timers where I presently live used this method to purify their drinking water in their cisterns in bygone years and this worked well. This is a really cheap way to go as a gallon of bleach doesn't cost that much and you only need drops.

There is a new way of purifying water that works faster than either boiling it or letting it sit for 20 minutes after adding bleach. And you don't have the bad taste in the water from the bleach. This stuff is called ionized oxygen. All of the bacteria that is bad for us is anaerobic. Oxygen kills it. This ionized oxygen is tasteless, odorless, and is actually good for you. And it only has to stay in the water for a few seconds for it to do it's job. To see more about this new water purifier, see http://waltonfeed.com/ion.html for an indepth discussion of this new product.

Al

See http://waltonfeed.com/grain/faqs/vi-c.html
for a listing of food storage companies.

(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=807)

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Date: July 31, 1997 03:45 PM
Author: Rob Geneva (robgeneva@hotmail.com)
Subject: What about sewage?


What can you do if the only available water may or may not be contaminated with sewage? Will the available filters remove the stuff?

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Date: August 05, 1997 01:31 PM
Author: Al Durtschi (mark@waltonfeed.com)
Subject: You're hurt'in!


>What can you do if the only available water may or may not
>be contaminated with sewage?...

If you see this scenario as a possibility for your future, you need to take steps now to ensure yourself a good supply of water. Sure, you can kill the bacteria in it, but what other kinds of toxins are floating around in your sewage water?

Al

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Date: August 08, 1997 11:30 PM
Author: Jim (ndos@hotmail.com)
Subject: No Joy


Now is the time to look for a new homestead. Even expensive filters rated for VOCs will clog and become inefective if raw sewage is presant in any quantity. Move upstream of the polutant. Luck Jim

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Date: August 26, 1997 08:49 AM
Author: Ken Seger (kenseger@primary.net)
Subject: Sewage and VOCs


Actually any surface or near surface water in a time of social turmoil should be assumed to have sewage, volitile organic compounds, and various other unfriendly stuff in it. Considering how absolutlely essential good health is in a crisis, it would be hard to underestimate the importance of pure water. Prefiltering water through towels in a bucket, THEN through a Kearney filter, then through a coffee filter or paper lab filter, and then treating via chlorine, ozone, oxygen, iodine, or microfiltration to eliminate germs and THEN through activated charcoal would start to seem to excessive at all after you see your first dipthera patient. I would stongly suggest that one download and printout all of the wonderful survival articles at the http://waltonfeed.com site and associated links. I just found their site the other day and they have done a FINE job on it. Warning on iodine water purifiers. Those crystals WILL sublimate (go from solid directly to gas) and that gas will corrode ANY metal, stainless steel included, and make most plastics brittle. Never store (like I did) your iodine too close to a good knife, gun, rad-meter, or other important item. Wrapping them in a expendable cloth or tissue inside an expendable container (old peanut jar or medicine botle?) will reduce the hazard if you must store them close to something of value. The advantage of the iodine crystals is that they'll purify more water than anything else their size and wieght.

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Date: August 23, 1997 10:18 AM
Author: Ken Seger (kenseger@primary.net)
Subject: Bleach for disinfecting water


Please note on chlorine bleach (liquid variety) that it is merely chlorine gas disolved in water, much like soda pop is CO2 disolved in water. Soda pop can go flat over time if the container is not PERFECTLY air tight. Bleach containers are usually cheap plastic that is gas permiable. Therefore, if you buy liquid bleach now for use in 2000, the chlorine concentration will be less, perhaps MUCH less. I have purchased swimming pool supply granules (not huge tablets)for "storage" chlorine as there is less storage loss. It also requires VASTLY less sorage space. Avoid ones labeled anti-fungal or anti-algae as they are not pure sodium hypoclorite, but have various toxic additives not suitable for potable water. It is cheap and I have enough for my entire sub-division. All water should be pre-filtered to remove any solids as they will deactivate a portion of the chlorine. A coffee filter is good for small quantities, a bucket or barrel crammed with towels with holes in the bottem makes a great pre-filter. Cresson Kearney's book _Nuclear War Survival Skills_ shows you how to make a great earth/cloth filter and tons of other survival skills that are not specific for nuclear war but any emergency situation. If anybody wants more water ideas, there are several files on the subject on my BBS (314)821-2815.

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Date: September 21, 1997 11:47 PM
Author: Mark Bodine (bodine2@juno.com)
Subject: Pool chemicals

In using pool chemicals, how much would you recommend in say green pool water for drinking purposes?Mark

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Date: September 22, 1997 12:51 AM
Author: Jim (ndos@hotmail.com)
Subject: Green Pool Water


Dr. Bodine,

If the water is already green use it to water the lawn. That amount of chemicals needed to make it drinkable would make it just as undrinkable.

The clorinating product itself should give you the directions for keeping your pool water clear if it still is. This assumes that you are running the pool filter as recomended.

One of the problems with any pool that is in direct sunlight is that the sun itself will cause the clorine to dissapate too quickly for this to be anything other than a very temporary storage site for your potable water. Your chemicals will tend to run out rapidly. If you keep it covered the tempurature will rise, encouraging bacteria growth.

There are many better methods for storeing water. If this is your only option filter it, boil it, and filter it some more. The chemicals just won't help much.

Regards

Jim

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Date: September 22, 1997 01:29 PM
Author: ken Seger (kenseger@hotmail.com)
Subject: Reply to Mark and Jim


Mark, the first thing you need to find out is why is the water green?

If it is from chemical or mineral contamination (Copper?), you might have to jump through several hoops to get it pure enough to treat, ie. 1st neutralize the pH to precipitate the contamination, 2nd run through a Kearney filter, 3rd through a paper lab filter, and then look at the water. Depending on your soil just running it through a Kearney filter might be enough.

If it is just some algae, simple filtering will be enough.

The type of household bleach you want is 5.25% sodium hypoclorite and nothing else. Many bleaches say "not fit for human consumption" and are correct if they have additional whiteners and brightners. The pool chemical must be ONLY calcium hypoclorite (usually 65%) with nothing else, no anti-fungals, no aluminum based clarifiers, etc. The "burn-out" or "shock treatment" is usually the pure calcium hypoclorite. In a WELL VENTILATED AREA (ie. outdoors away from everything) you mix (while holding your breath) 24.5 grams (about 10 Tablespoons) of the hypoclorite in one gallon of water to get the 5.25% bleach and store it in an airtight glass bottle. Then as Al D. said, 8-16 drops per gallon, wait about half and hour, making sure to let the bleached water cover the lid and sides of what you're purifiying in. Do check out the water texts at Walton Feeds home page or my BBS.

Jim, you are correct, trying to store water in an open swimming pool in a potable state is not practical (particularily after the power goes down). I also agree that treating with JUST chemicals is impractical. However, I will strongly argue that multistage filtering can make his green pool water quite suitable for chlorine or iodine sterilization. The best way to store water is in aluminized mylar containers. However in any long term disruption, securing and purifying water sources is the only way to go because a family just can't store enough water to live on for a year.

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Date: September 23, 1997 02:20 AM
Author: Jim (ndos@hotmail.com)
Subject: The Right Stuff


I stand corrected and will ever sit humbly at thy knee in hope of gaining a small portion of thy wisdom.

All that mush aside, what is a Kearney Filter?

Thanks

Jim

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Date: September 23, 1997 01:41 AM
Author: Dr Dough (drdough@hotmail.com)
Subject: Testing Water

Are there any tests one could run on a water source to know what you are up against?

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Date: September 23, 1997 06:34 AM
Author: ken Seger (kenseger@hotmail.com)
Subject: Reply to Dr. Dough and Jim


Dr. D, there are literally hundreds of labs that will test your water for e.coli, hardness, turbitity, and other standard tests for a very reasonable fee. They will also be happy to take a bit more of your money to test for VOCs, toxic elements, etc. You should be able to get a list from your extension service or yellow pages.

Jim, the book _Nuclear Water Survial Skills_ is available from OISM.ORG and has all sorts of good info for surviving when the system goes blooey. Chapter 8, p.66-74 are on water. The Kearney filter is specifically designed to remove radioactivity from water, but will also work nicely as an adsorbing filter. Basically you take a 5 gallon container, put a dozen nail holes in the bottem punching upward within 2" of the center. Place a 1 1/2" layer of pebbles or twisted coat hanger wire on the bottom. Cover pebbles with a terrycloth towel 3" larger than the diameter of the container. Take soil containing some clay from at least 4" below the surface of the ground. Pulverize the soil and press it in layers over the cloth to hold the cloth against the sides, about 6-7" deep. Cover soil with another towel and place small stones to hold cloth in place when adding water. Yield should be less than 1 quart in 10 minutes, if not recompress soil. Typically 1 gallon per hour at first then 2 quarts per hour. See book for maintaining filter. Good for about a dozen gallons before you have to replace the packed soil. The water is then ready for disinfection with chlorine or iodine.

The book is 8 1/2"x 10" and 280 pages and has chapters on water, food, light, sanitation and preventive medicine, survivng without doctors, improvised clothing and protective items, shelters, etc. While it is certianly better to be very prepared for Y2K, it is always a good idea to have a fallback to your fallback in case something goes wrong and one is forced to relocate in a hurry to an unprepared site and you need to improvise. A chinese proverb states that on a long trip (life) one must be prepared to leave behind ones luggage several times. Just because one has relocated to a rural area, doesn't mean you no longer need a bug-out kit.

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